Open Thread

After reading an old George Orwell essay called, ‘ You and the atomic bomb,’ ‘ War by assassination,’ by John Filis and this …

HOWARD MORLAND RECALLS THE PROGRESSIVE CASE

In the late 1970s, activist and freelance writer Howard Morland decided to investigate “the secret of the H-Bomb” and wrote an article about his findings in The Progressive magazine. In a
landmark case, the government moved to block publication of his article, claiming that it contained classified information. It was
eventually published anyway.

Morland’s quest was not universally admired, even outside of government. FAS opposed the frontal challenge to the Atomic Energy Act, concerned that it would set an adverse precedent, which it
did.

But the case also raised fundamental issues about the boundaries of government control of information, the nature of nuclear secrecy,
and the ability of individual citizens to challenge authority.

Morland recalled his experience in a March 2004 symposium at the Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University marking the 25th anniversary of the The Progressive case. See the text of his lecture, abundantly illustrated, here:

( Illustrated plans for a H-bomb URL snipped )

I feel that the time has come for an NGO atomic device ( or three) Heavy water seems to be the key for this and I’d be interested in others opinions on this. Nuclear non proliferation is just a joke when Uranium is so easy to pick up in Africa.

Have you seen the ad by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? Eyewitness accounts among the fellow officers of John Kerry’s unit opposing his re-election.

See the damning ad at:

http://swiftvets.com

Please contribute money, at:

https://coral.he.net/~swiftvet/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets

It begins with a clip from one of KERRY’S OWN COMMERCIALS.

Edwards suggests that you “spend 3 minutes with the men who served with John Kerry”, and up on the screen – again, in KERRY’S OWN AD – is a picture with a number of Veterans.

So, here now comes several testimonials from the VERY SAME MEN in the VERY SAME PICTURE in KERRY’S OWN AD !!!

What is the Kerry campaign’s objection? It’s just exactly what his own commercial suggested! Talk about who raised this issue first!

Here is the photograph from Kerry’s commercial, in which John Edwards asks viewers to “spend three minutes with the men who served with him”.

http://www.swiftvets.com/images/Vets_after.jpg

This is a copy in which those supporting Kerry are highlighted.

Um, that’s Kerry and ONE OTHER GUY!

In other words, if you were to spend three minutes with any “men” (i.e., more than one man) who served with him, according to the picture Kerry himself offered up, you’d get *opposition* to Kerry. And in several cases, tales of sordid lies and acts of dishonor.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot … in pursuit of a purple heart perhaps?

Hi Dan,

While I was away at OSCON a week ago, I tried to pick up your book at Powell’s in Portland on the night of the 30th (couldn’t go to your signing at Powell’s on the 27th). It was sold out! After I returned home from OSCON, I went by Borders, and you’re sold out too! I live in Puerto Rico, and there’s only two local Borders stores, and the other booksellers suck, so …

I finally managed to order a copy from Barnes and Noble online … and I have to wait a week before it ships!

Sounds like it’s selling! Good job!

PS – I grabbed the CC-licensed PDFs to read on my PDA while I wait for the dead-tree royalty-paying version. Good stuff.

PPS – Why did I buy a copy when I knew beforehand that the book would be available online under a CC license? Same reason I own dead-tree royalty-paying copies of Cory’s books. I make decent money and don’t lack anything. And I believe there is no moral and ethical reason I should deny a good writer his due. In fact, I consider NOT paying for something I enjoy to be immoral and unethical. You can quote me on that.

PPPS 🙂 I’m an gainfully employeed open source developer too, btw. I’ve tripled my salary in the last three years working with free software. Go figure! 😀

So the number of new employed last month is 32,000 instead of the 240,000 predicted and the market falls and economists express concern. And Bush continues his bragging about the improvments he’s made in the economy without missing a beat. It’s as if he’s programmed and just doesn’t get it or understand that he’s making a fool of himself. If he can’t recognize a problem, what hope is there? Where is the critical thinking?

phil, Bush knows about no employment growth. But bringing up the “jobless recovery” is Kerry’s job, not Bush’s. Kerry has to address it properly, too, or it will blow up even on him. After all, it is deeper than the Democrat/Republican divide. It goes to the heart of the American economy itself. So a certain amount of tiptoing around it is in order for both as they position themselves.

The problem itself must be fascinating for economists.

Clinton was just in Toronto for a book signing. What a star! The people I talked to were stunned at his amazing communication skills. I bring it up because I think he could summarize the problem intelligently and sympathetically for all of us, i.e., give us a handle on dealing with it in our own minds. I hope Kerry learns fast from him.

Not according to the military. And if you are going to line by line examine Bush’s service, then by all means tell me why Kerry’s service is beyond the pale?

I respect his military service for this country, but my respect ended with his war crimes testimony smearing all those who served, based almost completely on hearsay and word-for-word from a book on the subject. Not to mention throwing his medals at the white house would seem to me to be effectively seperating himself from the honors his country placed upon him.

Oh, but those were not his medals.

Nice to see Al Jazeera not only air fake footage of an American beheading, but also being banned by the Iraqi government for 30 days, and now they are airing statements by Sadr spokesman which Micael Moore would not even touch.

Sistani was forced out of the country by Sadr’s followers, the Americans only killed 9 Sadr mehdi terrorits, the Iraqi government is bowing to the A
mericans trying to kill all Muslims, the Americans broke the truce, the Mehidi army did not kidnap or attack Iraqi police last week, it was a rumor…

Who was the moron on here that compared Al Jazeera to Fox News again? Pardon my french.

“Have you seen the ad by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth?”

Nope: I don’t have Flash installed because of its poor security record and the tendency of web developers who use it to squander bandwidth.

Otoh, I _have_ seen the whois results for “introspectiononlinetoday.com”. It’s wonderfully ironic to see an “xxxx for Truth” group being promoted by someone who not only lies, but does it poorly.

I guess evil help is hard to find, too…

Ran —

Perhaps you could share the whois info with us all–introspectiononlinetoday.com appears to be no longer registered. That was quick.

Last night I went to Kerry/Edwards campain stop. I was surprised that Kerry had a better speach than Edwards!

Silicon Valley’s slump eroding optimism

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) — Silicon Valley’s optimistic entrepreneurs and venture capitalists insist an economic rebound is around the corner, despite all the shuttered office parks and business plans that anticipate hiring more employees in India, Russia or China than in California.
They point to nebulous indicators: Traffic jams are returning. Office vacancy rates have stabilized at about 17%. The moneyed crowd has to wait for seats again at posh Palo Alto restaurants.

But others are skeptical. Workers in the Bay Area are the most pessimistic in the nation, with 27% worried about losing their job, according to a July survey by staffing firm Hudson Highland Group. Only 18% of workers nationwide share that fear.

Santa Clara County — which comprises San Jose and the corporate hubs of Cupertino and Palo Alto — has lost 231,000 jobs since the peak of the dot-com bubble in December 2000, according to a recent report from San Jose Mayor Ron Gonzales.

By contrast, the entire state of Ohio has lost about 200,000 jobs in the same period.

Some say that unlike Midwestern manufacturing jobs, Silicon Valley’s lost positions were little more than “bubble jobs” — superfluous titles given to caffeinated college grads and programmers during the dot-com boom. But restaurants and retailers still miss the ripple effect of those high-tech paychecks.

Full article here:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-07-silicon-valley-economy_x.htm

Not only were there only 32,000 jobs created, but did you see Ah-Nuld on Leno? He bragged about the 30,000 jobs created in Col-e-forn-ee-a over the last TWO months. Now why on earth would he brag about two months worth of gain instead of just the last? Gee, maybe there wasn’t any growth in the last month!

Now as to something completely trivial: I see Jenna caught a fish. I wonder how many Secret Service agents were in scuba gear underwater with fish just waiting so they could attach the fish to her hook?

“introspectiononlinetoday.com appears to be no longer registered”

Never was, afaik. Actually, it might have been a mistake to attribute the bogus domain to incompetence: perhaps our faker ascribes to the code of the Bene Tleilax, and was merely offering the required warning of deception…

“Now why on earth would he brag about two months worth of gain instead of just the last?”

Maybe it comes from his background in sports: reporters and commentators are always coming up with bizarre statistics like “The Tadpoles have only won 7 of their last 17 games” when the team is 30, or even 130, games into the season. And they never explain why they picked 17, instead of 13, or 18, or 22. I keeep wondering whether there’s a requirement that all members of the Benevolent Brotherhood of American Sports Writers keep a dartboard for selecting the denominators of their stats…

A more serious possibility is that he wanted the longest “recovery-ette” possible to brag about, but the _earlier_ months were too negative.

Will Ferrel does Bush. Pretty funny!
http://whitehousewest.com/

Time to start thinking about the Bush memorial libray!
==============================
Crayons ready? It’s the G.W. Bush Liberry
His malaprops will be chiseled in marble walls
– Jaime O’Neill
SF Chronicle
Sunday, August 8, 2004

In anticipation of the day when George W. Bush is no longer in office, it is perhaps appropriate to give some thought to the prospect of a George W. Bush Presidential Library. The concept may seem oxymoronic to some. After all, how do we go about building a library for a man who appears so proud of his alienation from printed matter? He boasts of not reading newspapers, and there is little to be found in any of his public statements to suggest a familiarity with any book whatsoever. The thought of our current president reading, say, Shakespeare, defies imagining. It is difficult to think of him reading Danielle Steele, or John Grisham, let alone the Bard of Avon.

But if the Bush presidency has been about anything, it’s been about breaking free of the fetters of the traditional past. It was the Bush presidency, after all, that did away with the fussy old notion about the U.S. not engaging in unilateral acts of first-strike aggression against sovereign nations. It was George Bush, after all, who redefined a “conservative” as someone who believed in enormous deficits. And it was the Bush administration that accelerated the separation of language from action by constantly saying one thing while meaning another; i.e. “Clear Skies” initiatives, and “No Child Left Behind.”

Given all that, it may turn out that the George W. Bush Presidential Library (or, perhaps, “Liberry”) will be equally surprising in the ways it breaks with tradition, and with meaning.

Full article here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/08/08/INGI882MQB1.DTL

“Will Ferrel does Bush. Pretty funny!”

Yes, saying Republicans don’
t want you to vote or to watch the news is hilarious.

“Who was the moron on here that compared Al Jazeera to Fox News again?”

Um, that moron was you Cog. I just made a joke about it and you went nuts. Now it has become one of your “facts”.

What I wonder about are the people who *anonymously* post statements questioning Kerry’s bravery. Especially after Kerry’s comanding officer recanted his statements in the ad. If the Bush administration asked that PAC to pull the ads, they would. Those ads are just another example of the sleaze in the Administration and it’s followers.

For those that don’t know what Kerry got the Silver Star for, here is the “Readers Digest version” of what his boatmates said in an interview. Kerry will not talk about the incident: The patrol boat that he commanded spotted a enemy soldier with a shoulder launched missile on the river bank. They shot at the guy. If the guy got away with his weapon, someday soon, he’d be back and hiding in the bushes and Kerry and his crew would be dead. Kerry steered toward the bank in hopes of closing the distance where the one launching the missile would be taken out by the explosion too, keeping him from firing. Kerry jumped off the boat, ran the guy down and killed him.

The Republicans distill this down to: “He shot a wounded soldier in the back.”

“Not to mention throwing his medals at the white house…”

Not that same stupid argument again and please, please, please get some fact right at least occasionally. It was the *Capitol Steps*, not the Whitehouse. I was there (really), and you know, I can’t remember exactly what he threw and you’d have to be an idiot to believe that anyone else (including him) would remember either. Besides, the were his to trough anyway, symbolic or not.

So you are saying there is no comparison between Al Jazeera and Fox News? Just so we get our “facts” straight.

“Besides, the were his to trough anyway, symbolic or not.”

Pardon my error with the exact location of where Kerry threw the medals. I think you also know he said was given someone elses medals to throw, but then again everyone makes a mistake, right? Thank you for clearing that up for me.

I respect John Kerry’s serice, but my main problem with him was his statements made after the war. Either he needs to prove them or rescind them if he has a chance for my vote.

[American troops] “had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam…” [The US military committed war crimes] “on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.” – John Kerry

“I personally didn’t see personal atrocities in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free fire zones and I did take part in harassment interdiction fire. I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these, I find out later on, these acts are contrary to the Hague and Geneva Conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the applications of the Nuremberg principles, is in fact guilty.” – John Kerry

First Cog, tell us who you are. You attack Kerry’s bravery and hide behind a pseudonym?

“I respect John Kerry’s serice”
You should. He was a hero of the war and then a hero of the anti-war. I was at that demonstration in the supporters group (I’m not a vet) and thousands of Korean War, WW2 and even a few WW1 veterans were marching with the thousands of Vietnam vets.

“… if he has a chance for my vote.”
Yeah, right, you’d vote for him? Modifying your statements like that, after your other posts adds nothing to your crediblity. You’re just trying to fool people into thinking that your ideas are balanced.

Second, Pardon your error about the location????
How much of the rest of your posts are erroneous. Basic facts are important. In this case, the point of the demonstration was to lobby Congress about stopping The War. For days before the Vietnam Veterans Against the War demonstration, Kerry and other vets lobbied congress. We just marched past the White House, the important stuff happened on the stage in front of the Capitol Building. Calling someone a moron when you’ve gotten your facts wrong is, well, somewhat moronic.

Third, don’t try to rewrite history. Those kinds of things happened all the time during the Vietnam war. I’ve seen enough pictures of atrocities there to make me sick. It took guts to stand up and say it. He was not the only one to say it, to show pictures of it. You can dislike those facts, but to try to deny them is unpatriotic. The patriotic thing, as an American, is to stand up to tyrany whether it comes from inside or outside. AND THEN FIX IT. Not just where there’s oil and a dictator who tried to kill your daddy. To fix it in Bosnia and Kosovo, like Clinton did (without losing a single soldier in combat) and then do it in Sudan, Nigeria, North Korea and 50 other places until Tinhorn dictators stop stealing and murdering.

“Calling someone a moron when you’ve gotten your facts wrong is, well, somewhat moronic.” – Ted

[American troops] “had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam…” [The US military committed war crimes] “on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.” – John Kerry

“I personally didn’t see personal atrocities in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free fire zones and I did take part in harassment interdiction fire. I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these, I find out later on, these acts are contrary to the Hague and Geneva Conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the applications of the Nuremberg principles, is in fact guilty.” – John Kerry

Kind of speaks for itself, doesnt it? Almost like the rest of your post.

Cog – So what is your point? Who *ARE* you?

Cog’s looking pretty pointless to me too. He has a right to his pseudonymity, though. I just don’t get his pseudonym. Cog? As in “just another in the machine”? Talk about low self-esteem.
Anywhoo…Kerry standing up and speaking out
against something he believes to be wrong, something that was known to be happening, only speaks FOR his integrity. Oh and by the way, President Bush spoke against the atrocities in Abu Graib which were far less obscene. I kinda doubt the sincerity though, since the reaction was to ban the method by which it was reported, i.e digicams.

One question, how often did he raise attrocities committed by the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong?

Do either of you know anyone who had to live in Vietnam after the war? Have either of you ever met a Hmong or ethnic Chinese who were slaughtered by the North after the war, or a south Vietnamese who was forced into a re-education camp?

I did not think so.

Um, actually I do. I know several of the above. We have a large community of exiles from Vietnam here. One who’s Father went back to visit and was thrown into a “Re-Education Camp” for years. Yes, another example of the mess that we left behind. Kerry was reporting about what some of the people on our side did and how the commanders, whose job it is to see that atrocities aren’t committed encouraged that kind of behavior. CIA types used to take groups of suspects up in a helecopter and question them. One by one they threw them out the side. If nobody knew anything, the helecopter came back empty. Everybody knows about the atrocities that the Viet Cong committed. It was on the TV news every night.

Again, what is your point? Other than to try to smear a hero like Kerry, that is.

“Yes, another example of the mess that we left behind.”

So the re-education camps are OUR fault? Is there anything that you do not hold the US accountable for?

“Everybody knows about the atrocities that the Viet Cong committed. It was on the TV news every night.”

Ah, this everybody knows about what they did argument, so it does not need to be quantified, examined, or even discussed. I worked with someone who was tortured in a re-education camp and eventually he left his family and fled to a refugee camp on a boat. I would like you to tell him that his torture was our fault.

My x-girlfriends family lived near Hue. Her parents talked about the war maybe 2 or 3 times in the few years I knew them. It would be interesting to see you actually talk to them and blame the US for the tens of thousands of people the North slaughtered on their march southward.

The reason I brought up the Hmongs should be obvious. The North Vietnamese slaughtered them to almost the point of extinction in Vietnam. As were many different ethnic Chinese who the Vietnamese looked down upon.

But those are problems created by us, which we left behind. Right. I am well aware of many cases of American attrocities, and the damage much of the military actions have wrecked on the countryside. But they pale in comparison to the toll the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong took on the Vietnamese people.

And the torture dates back fifty years. How many soldiers captured at Dien Bien Phu were treated according to the Geneva convention Ted? Scratch that, how many soldiers taken captive lived? Was that America’s fault as well?

I get ya Cog. It’s OK by you to commit attrocities as long as you aren’t as bad as the other guys and you do your best to cover it up.

First you demand that Kerry to prove the allegations he made 25 years ago (before you’d vote for him) and now you say: “Right. I am well aware of many cases of American attrocities.”

So, were you lying then or are you lying now? You can’t have it both ways.

And for your information, the French didn’t follow the Geneva convention either. They were a colonial power. If you treat people bad enough, long enough, they turn into monsters. Then people like you turn around and say, “Look, they’re monsters.” The French didn’t belong there and we didn’t either. Some “Dommino Effect”! *They* won the war and nobody’s heard from them again in 25 years.

BTW, the first Geneva convention took place because of the attrocities committed by the North and the South in the American Civil War. Like I said before, admit your faults and then fix them. We did. That’s what separates “Us from Them”. Or used to.

Off to more important things.

You get more embarassing by the post.

“It’s OK by you to commit attrocities as long as you aren’t as bad as the other guys and you do your best to cover it up.” – TF

What part of this made up statement is based on any of my comments? Not to mention it is an affirmative defense [answering the accusastion with another instead of addressing the point made]. Both sides should be held accountable for their actions. Not just one side, as you profess endlessly.

“First you demand that Kerry to prove the allegations he made 25 years ago (before you’d vote for him) and now you say: ‘Right. I am well aware of many cases of American attrocities.'” – TD

Yes, and the cases I am aware of have been documented publicly. The most definative account was the Kansas City Blade article, although I could have the name of the paper wrong. Each charge was not neccessarily proved, but the evidence for each was given fully.

Kerry made heinous accusations in front of congress based for the most part on hearsay. He should either back up his accusations with proof, cite the specific instances he is refering to, or he should rescind them.

What exactly do you not understand? He should either back up his accusations or he should rescind them.

“BTW, the first Geneva convention took place because of the attrocities committed by the North and the South in the American Civil War. Like I said before, admit your faults and then fix them. We did. That’s what separates “Us from Them”. Or used to.”

Yes, feel free to detail how exactly the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong followed the Geneva Conventions in the Vietnam war. [crickets chirping…]

Oh wait, only attrocities that Americans commit are worthy of discussion. I am sorry. My bad.

Make that the Toledo Blade.

“how often did he raise attrocities committed by the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong?”

About as often as it was relevant to the discussion of (alleged) atrocities and war crimes committed by Americans, probably.

Which is to say: not at all.

So you are saying attrocities committed by the Vietnamese are not relevant at all when examining those committed by Americans?

“He should either back up his accusations or he should rescind them.” – cog

What part of this do you not understand?